Peru – Cradle of Civilization?

From livinginperu.com:

A new archaeological fortress, known as Manco Pata, was discovered in the town of Kimbiri (Cusco), located in the Apurímac-Ene River Valley (VRAE), announced the mayor of the town, Guillermo Torres.In his statements, he pointed out that the fortress was located in the rural community “Unión Vista Alegre”, of the village of Lobo Tahuantinsuyo, and covers an area of 40,000 square meters.Last December 29, after clearing the area of brush, beautiful and enigmatic structures built of large stones were found. They were perfectly cut and formed high walls.

Considering the findings, the mayor explained that this fortress could be part of the lost citadel of Paititi, which is the name for a kind of Inca or pre-Inca lost city-state.

Despite many Western prejudices, the Amerind cultures of many thousands of years ago are proving to be very advanced culturally. Some have the bad rep of bloody human sacrifices so the gods will continue to bestow good weather for crops (Mayans through Aztecs) and that offends our 21st Century sensibilities. But can we honestly say that’s any worse than the Spartans leaving infants in the elements to prove their hardiness, or Alexander The Great’s military campaigns through South Asia, Caesar wiping out the Celts almost, William The Conquerer or the Vikings for that matter? Western culture was born in blood, who are we to judge the Amerinds?

Recently another ancient city was discovered in Peru. One that is purported to be the same age or older than Egypt, or Sumer. Western archeologists are loath to admit the site is that old and they are hesitant to certify it. Also, it’s disproving the theory that civilization was born in blood and war, but trade and peace. (Link here)

Time to rethink the paradigm I believe.

Original article

Hat tip to Red Ice Creations

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10 responses

  1. Western prejudices against ancient native American cultures go back to the Spanish missionaries. They destroyed many valuable books and codices that essentially equaled the knowledge lost in the ancient Library in Alexandria Egypt.

    Fundies at work!

  2. Well, civilization had to start somewhere, not everywhere at once! Oh, hell, if you’re into evolution, why couldn’t it have started everywhere at once? What are the chances of that happening, marine… any better or worse than the 500 zillion ba dillion to one ratio they give for our slime to have birthed itself?

    I’ll still go with the Fertile Crescent scenario, with the resultant migrations. Except for the Leaky crowd, who insist that Kunta’s great-grandmother’s name was Cheetah, even opponents in belief systems can all agree on that one!

    And if the Borg seeded us, sometime in the dim past, why couldn’t they have done it with Ms. Cheetah and her sisters… and … and…

    I need a drink!

    😉

  3. There’s other archeological evidence supporting theories that mankind is far older and has been in the Americas longer than the “official” 12,000 to 13,000 years given for the “clovis point” arrow head: The treatment received by Lee is not an isolated case. In the 1960s, anthropologists uncovered advanced stone tools at Hueyatlaco, Mexico. Geologist Virginia Steen-McIntyre and other members of a U.S. Geological Survey team obtained an age of about 250,000 years for the sites implement-bearing layers. This challenged not only standard views of New World anthropology but also the whole standard picture of human origins. Humans capable of making the kind of tools found at Hueyatlaco are not thought to have come into existence until around 100,000 years ago in Africa.

    Virginia Steen-McIntyre experienced difficulty in getting her dating study on Hueyatlaco published. “The problem as I see it is much bigger than Hueyatlaco,” she wrote to Estella Leopold, associate editor of Quaternary Research. “It concerns the manipulation of scientific thought through the suppression of ‘Enigmatic Data,’ data that challenges the prevailing mode of thinking. Hueyatlaco certainly does that! Not being an anthropologist, I didn’t realize the full significance of our dates back in 1973, nor how deeply woven into our thought the current theory of human evolution has become. Our work at Hueyatlaco has been rejected by most archaeologists because it contradicts that theory, period.”

    This pattern of data suppression has a long history. In 1880, J. D. Whitney, the state geologist of California, published a lengthy review of advanced stone tools found in California gold mines. The implements, including spear points and stone mortars and pestles, were found deep in mine shafts, underneath thick, undisturbed layers of lava, in formations that geologists now say are from 9 million to over 55 million years old. W. H. Holmes of the Smithsonian Institution, one of the most vocal nineteenth- century critics of the California finds, wrote: “Perhaps if Professor Whitney had fully appreciated the story of human evoution as it is understood today, he would have hesitated to announce the conclusions formulated [that humans existed in very ancient times in North America], notwithstanding the imposing array of testimony with which he was confronted.” In other words, if the facts do not agree with the favored theory, then such facts, even an imposing array of them, must be discarded. – Chapter 5 of Michael Cremo’s “Forbidden Archeology”

    I know how you feel about time being an illusion, but for the sake of keeping this secular, I’m going to accept the time scales and carbon-14 dating results.

    How do you like your drink, neat, with ice or water?

    Knowing you, probably straight from the bottle! 😎

  4. Hi dad2059 et. al. …

    A great topic for sure. I thought I’d supply two links the first shows several photos of the tight workmanship of the stone blocks as found on Inca structures which indicates their method of working stone in mountainous regions that are earthquake prone to be the same throughout the region regardless of the time frame in which the civilization might have existed.

    The second link is a Nova link discussing how the stone masons possibly achieved this incredibly tight fit between massive blocks that even today cannot be penetrated with a credit card or a fine knive blade.

    There’s been speculation that the natives were shown how to work stone by aliens and a bunch of other such nonsense. I always think, that without TV, radio, no periodicals, and no planetary destroying crooks to ponder the ancients had a lot of time on their hands to figure out how to work with stone and even to become consumate visual astronomers. Other than growing crops which were generally left to the women the men had to do something besides engage in intertribal warfare so they became consumate stonemasons in a mountainous, very rocky part of the world indeed.

    http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia.aspx?Id=TvpIfaISiA8=
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/inca1/qanda.html

    Carl Nemo **==

  5. And in a dirty glass, jarhead!

    Ha-ha!

  6. HW: After alcohol’s been in it, it’s not dirty anymore!

    With germs anyway!

    Personally, I prefer a Mason jar! Or something with a green label. 😎

    Carl: That’s the big mystery, how did they get those gi-normous stone blocks up the side of those mountains? Those stones are twice the size and weight of the Giza pyramid blocks!

    I’m not going with the alien hypothesis, even though Von Daniken was the first corrupting influence in my life. I’m with Graham Hancock and Michael Cremo on the advanced ancient culture hypothesis.

    Too many OOPArts are in the mix!

  7. And the people that theorize about those OOPARTS say that mankind is much smaller and weaker than what we once were. Do the math: if you have an individual with 20 times the strength and vitality as a 21st Century runt, then multiply that by thousands, (millions) you have what appears to be an impossible undertaking by modern standards – business as usual for the ancient world!

    The pyramid project would be child’s play for these monsters, and the technological requirements would not be as stringent… though I believe that the ancients were a lot smarter than the “Global Warming” crowd we’re dealing with, today! Maybe they had technology we can’t even imagine!

  8. Oh I’m sure they had technology we couldn’t imagine. We’re rediscovering stuff that previous civilizations discovered. Or rediscovered again. And again.

    I’m not going into Atlantis and the crystal energy nonsense, although the crystal skulls pose another interesting question. And that’s another Central and South American OOPArt.

    We’ll probably never find out the whole truth of mankind’s great past, because the present elite order depends on keeping mankind down with collective abuse and brow-beating us with “humans cause climate change, we’re no better than viruses and the Earth would be better without us.”

    We’re part of nature too yes that’s true. But intelligence is a great and rare gift and must be cherished in the Universe. Humans don’t use that gift well at times, but you don’t throw out a barrel of apples because some have rot and worms.

  9. Hi dad2059 et. al….

    “the present elite order depends on keeping mankind down with collective abuse and brow-beating us with “humans cause climate change, we’re no better than viruses and the Earth would be better without us.”
    *****
    I offer my apologies to my friends in cyberspace because I’m a proponent of such brow-beating of humanoids, not because I loathe them but because I care about them. I would both welcome and enjoy their survival, but with them wallowing about in their soiled nest caring little for the well-being of their space ship; ie., “Earth” , they, everseeking to escape their nest via space travel and other such elusive dreams is for naught until they take responsiblity for their actions as a race of beings.

    Little do they realize that if they made an effort to get their affairs in order then they would find their place among the stars, but not before.

    Yes, humans don’t use their gift of intelligence all that well, but that’s simply because most people aren’t all that intelligent. If you’ve ever studied a Gaussian distribution of intelligence; ie., the “Bell Curve” half of humanity male and female are below average with the other half above, but rest assured not all those on the right side of the median use their gifts for the benefit of the other half.

    Avarice, greed, the lusting for power, passe’ competition and their highly dangerous vestigial trait for imposing their territorial imperative for the acquistion of resources as “oil” in our times is all linked to their impending failure as a race of beings. There will be some surivors, but a great pruning of the tree of life, humans included is at hand.

    Everyone with solid intelligence has a responsibility to help those not so blessed. Intelligence and predation should not be congruent, but it seems to be so not only now, but down through the ages. A corrupted, competitive, survival instinct supported by a similar failure in our ethics as a species is why we shall fail.

    Possibly “Starman” who may have intervened in our genetic advancement throughout mankinds rise upward from the muck of time during the past 6 million years or so, now realize their mistake. At one time these aforementioned traits served us well, but not with 6.7 billion humanoids milling about and 10 billion projected by 2050. Survival of the fittest works efficiently throughout the biosphere for the lower creatures, but ported to humankind as modern Social Darwinism is a corruption of the principal.

    We now live in an age where none of the extant “isms” will work. All systems of government, religion, and the schemes of the past will no longer work with such population crowding and their grasping for limited resources.

    It’s time for the a New Dawn and I can assure the ever-scheming shadowy oligarchs that their New World Order has no answers for our species specific plight either. To them, we are mere groundlings, they the predators, and we their prey. Incredibly wealthy, elitist, grasping sociopaths would be the best description for these facilitators for the New World Order.

    Concerning intelligence I thought I’d share a link. It’s an interesting short story written by Isaac Asimov concerning intelligence which I think readers will enjoy. Even Isaac learned humility. Everyone has something to contribute. We are all in this together…

    http://www.haverford.edu/writingprogram/Asimov.html

    Carl Nemo **==

  10. Carl: Yes, we humanoids should get it through our thick heads that we should get our house in order. Greed and the lust for power are preventing that, but there are forces struggling to fight back against this. We are. People like us. We are warriors in the fight to keep the lamp lit.

    Will we succeed? It doesn’t look too hopeful at the moment and it’s oh so easy to give up. But we have a message to give. And as long as we have that message, we have the duty to all of humanity, not just the “intelligent” ones, but the others as well. If they refuse to hear or act on the message, well, in my mind anyway, I can say I tried.

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